Season 4, Episode 1 – Trujillo v Garley: The Landmark Case for Native American Voting Rights in New Mexico
[Opening strum of Theme Music]
[00:00:00] Stephanie Padilla: I think the bigger question would be how could it not be important for Indigenous people to be politically aware? I mean, this is our home. We are Native American people and we also need to realize that we do have a say in what happens now.
[00:00:22] Michael Trujillo: And Dad was very interested in regards to he not wanting it for a specific tribe or a Pueblo, but rather it opened the door for Indians, in general, and tribes to vote.
[00:00:38] Charlotte Jusinski (VO): Hi, folks. I’m Charlotte Jusinski, editor of El Palacio magazine, and this is Encounter Culture, a podcast from the New Mexico Department of Cultural Affairs.
This season we’re doing something a little bit different. We’ve partnered with the New Mexico History Museum to bring you a deep dive into Native American voting rights before and after Trujillo v Garley.
It’s the incredible true story of Miguel Trujillo from Isleta Pueblo. And while it’s one you may not have ever heard before, it has far reaching implications for many of our neighbors throughout the state of New Mexico and beyond.
But before we get into it…
[Culture Pass Giveaway]
[00:01:00] Charlotte (VO): To celebrate this season’s collaboration, we’d like to thank you for being part of our listening community at Encounter Culture.
Over the past three seasons of the show, we’ve toured New Mexico’s exceptional state museums and historic sites. But, of course, our favorite way to fully experience everything they have to offer is in person with the New Mexico Culture Pass. Right now, through August 31st, 2023, you can enter to win a package of four Culture Passes and a one year subscription to El Palacio magazine, all valued at $145, by visiting podcast.nmculture.org/giveaway.
Whether you’re a local resident or you’re visiting us on your travels, Culture Pass is your ticket to each of our 15 museums and historic sites. You must be 18 years or older to apply, and there is no purchase necessary. This opportunity is made possible by the New Mexico Department of Cultural Affairs and the Museum of New Mexico Foundation.
Once again, visit podcast.nmculture.org/giveaway and enter to win four Culture Passes and a one year subscription to El Palacio magazine. Giveaway ends August 31st, 2023.
[Giveaway announcement ends. Theme music fades. Hopi music, flutes & percussion, fades in.]
[00:02:19] Charlotte: And now I’d like to introduce you to my co-host for this season, Stephanie Padilla.
[00:02:23] Stephanie: Hi everyone. My name is Stephanie Padilla. I was raised on the Pueblo of Isleta. I’m also part Laguna Pueblo and Cochiti Pueblo. I went to high school and graduated from the Native American Community Academy, and then I went on to graduate from the University of New Mexico School of Law.
I currently serve as a children’s court attorney for the State of New Mexico, and I am so honored that I was able to work on this project, and I’m so excited to share it here.
[00:02:53] Charlotte: What led you to apply for this position? It was curatorial assistant, now the curator at the New Mexico History Museum about the Miguel Trujillo Project?
[00:03:01] Stephanie: It was just, perfect timing for me. Honestly. I took the Bar the first time and I failed, which sucked.
Charlotte: Mm-hmm.
Stephanie: Obviously. And so I basically had a year where I had time.
Charlotte: Yeah.
Stephanie: And this came up right at that time.
Charlotte: A lot of people would just kind of go get a job at Target and chill for a minute. But, you were like, I guess I’ll just get involved in this massive, intense project.
[00:03:29] Stephanie: No, I honestly thought it was just right up my alley. And it came at the right time. You know, I care a lot about my home and my people and Miguel Trujillo was a member of Isleta Pueblo. And Native people have historically had a little bit of tense relationships with museums and institutions because oftentimes things are just taken, you know?
Charlotte: Yes, absolutely.
Stephanie: I saw this as an opportunity to work with the New Mexico History Museum, especially because I knew that they were trying to hire on locals to do this work, and people who really knew, you know, what they were doing and what they were talking about. I really appreciated that and I respected that.
[00:04:10] Charlotte (VO): We’re about to introduce you to a whole lot of folks who know this story well.
Stephanie (VO): But first, Charlotte, let’s set the scene for everyone.
Charlotte (VO): It’s 1948.
[SFX: A click as a TV turns on. Cheerful 1940’s music plays…]
Charlotte (VO): Harry S. Truman is president. ABC airs their first television program and NASCAR is founded.
Stephanie (VO): There are no ZIP codes in the United States. No credit cards, no diet soft drinks.
Charlotte (VO): It’s an election year.
Stephanie (VO): And in New Mexico, Miguel Trujillo, a marine veteran and educator from Isleta Pueblo wants to register to vote.
[00:04:40] Laura Harris: Haa marúaweeka. I’m Laura Harris. I’m a citizen of the Comanche Nation and executive director of Americans for Indian Opportunity.
When the United States first formed as a government, Native Americans weren’t considered citizens and did not have the right to vote. And then in 1924, Congress passed the Indian Citizens Act, which did allow Native Americans to vote. And when I say that Congress passed this bill, they passed the bill because of advocacy from Native Americans ourself.
I’m pretty sure in 1924, we had a Native American Vice President, Charles Curtis, in the Hoover administration, so I’m sure they were able to advocate to him and got this legislation passed. But in several states, New Mexico included, Arizona, Colorado, Idaho, North Carolina, they denied the right. They still would not allow Native Americans to vote, and probably in other states as well.
But in 1934, we had the Indian Reorganization Act through President Roosevelt’s New Deal. And there again, they strengthened that right for Native Americans to vote and strengthened our inherent right to be self-governing.
And then in 1948, the National Congress of American Indians was really pushing for voting rights. And Miguel Trujillo, who was a citizen of Isleta Pueblo, he attempted to vote and was denied the right to vote, and he had just returned as a soldier from World War II.
[00:06:11] Michael Trujillo: My name is Mike Trujillo, a retired physician, and now, uh, busy at home following the boss’s directions – my wife! (laughs)
Stephanie (VO): He’s also Miguel Trujillo’s son.
Michael Trujillo: Yeah, I was four years old when that decision came down in, in ‘48 – August of ‘48. So I don’t remember much of it at all.
From looking back and, of course, all the things that have been happening and things that have happened in newspapers and ceremonies and things about Dad, you know, I really can’t recall any open conversations about the decision about the trial or about the hearing about the circumstances that never was really talked about and Dad never really talked about it anyplace else, and Mom never did either.
[00:07:02] Gordon Bronitsky: My name is Gordon Bronitsky. I’m president of Bronitsky and Associates, a firm which works with Indigenous peoples around the world in the performing arts and festival development.
Miguel, with Felix Cohen as his attorney, attempted to register in Los Lunas ‘cause although Miguel was resident at Laguna, he was from Isleta .
[00:07:24] Charlotte (VO): For anyone who doesn’t know this name, Felix Cohen was a big deal. Some call him the father of Indian law. He was a lawyer at the Department of the Interior for over a decade in the 1930s and is perhaps most famous for drafting the Indian Reorganization Act
[00:07:39] Stephanie (VO): At the time, his belief that tribes should have a say in their own governance was considered pretty radical. Later, he was a champion for many Native rights cases, including Miguel Trujillo’s.
[00:07:51] Gordon Bronitsky: But evidently the voter registrar in Los Lunas who denied him the right to vote was a friend of his. They weren’t strangers. So they then took it to the appeals court and they looked at the 14th Amendment, which has been an incredibly influential amendment, especially even right now. It’s the Equal Protection Clause.
[00:08:12] Stephanie (VO): Here’s a quick constitutional lesson. The 14th Amendment gives anyone who was born in the United States citizenship.
Charlotte (VO): The Equal Protection Clause is the second part of the amendment, which essentially says that states can’t make laws that limit the rights of citizens of the United States.
Stephanie (VO): “No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States, nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law, nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”
[00:08:47] Gordon Bronitsky: And the case that they made was this… The New Mexico Constitution of 1912 said, no, that people not taxed were not allowed to vote in state elections. Because the United States gave Indians the right to vote in federal elections in 1924, I think. But Indians couldn’t vote in state elections because they were not taxed. And what this meant, they didn’t pay taxes on tribal trust land.
So they took it to the appeals court and they made two major arguments. The first argument was that, yes, Indians did pay taxes. They paid sales taxes and income taxes and all kinds of other taxes. And they pointed out that people who did not pay taxes on land, for instance, people who lived in apartments were allowed to vote.
And finally, in 1948, the appellate court said that that section of the New Mexico State Constitution was unconstitutional and void. It created a lot of publicity at the time, which for, I never quite understood why, but faded away. But it did.
Charlotte (VO): Back to Michael.
[00:09:54] Michael Trujillo: Well, I do remember sometimes we would come to Albuquerque from Laguna in our little Dodge car and spend all – of course, it was a long time on the old 66 2 two-lane road coming into Albuquerque – spend all day, do the shopping, go back, and sometimes there would be a note from Felix Cohen in the house because he had crawled through the window and helped himself to some food while he was visiting some of the Pueblos.
So that was a fairly informal relationship with Felix and that continued on until Felix died. And he and Dad were very close friends and he was sort of like part of the family.
[Music swells]
[00:10:57] Karen Waconda: Hello, my name is Karen Waconda. My married name is Lewis, but unfortunately my husband passed. So I go by Karen Waconda. I am the sister to John and Patricia. I’m a mother to Camille and a grandmother to Jace and Juliana. I had to think about their English names for a while (laughs), and a granddaughter to Ruchanda and Miguel Trujillo.
[00:11:24] Stephanie (VO): When Karen was growing up, she said her grandfather never really talked about the court case. It wasn’t until she was in high school and participated in an exchange program with a student from California that she heard the full story. The student came to visit her and ended up interviewing her grandfather.
[00:11:40] Karen Waconda: And that’s when I realized, wait a minute, that’s really big. I didn’t realize that.
It’s like, wait a minute. Grandpa did all that? And he was very humble about it. He was never boastful and neither was my mother or my grandmother, you know, it was just something that you just do.
I mean, why would you be boastful about something that gives rights for others? I mean, that comes from the heart. It came from our livelihood. So, no, I didn’t know until much later. It was like, wow!
[00:12:33] John Waconda: My name is John Waconda. I’m Junior, and I am the grandson of Miguel Trujillo, son of Josephine Waconda and John Waconda Sr.
He made it known how poor he was, how poor his family was. They grew up in a one room house, didn’t have anything, he said. He would describe, we didn’t have anything, you know, garden maybe, you know, may have had a donkey or a couple animals, maybe some chickens or something.
But he often made it known that at a young age, he had to work, you know, helping to support the family even when he was 10 or 12, collecting wood or, you know, taking care of other people’s fields or garden, or doing that kind of laborous work they would trade. He said some things with the Spanish living off the reservation, but he was very clear that he has struggles, that he had to overcome that in some way.
He says, I didn’t go to school till I was like 12. You know, first grade when he was 12 years old, didn’t know English and yet recognized the value of education to complete school.
And then he met people. He was very outgoing in a way to meet people who were positive influences in his life. And I think those were the people who gave him ideas about opportunities for him and for how that would help his family.
And he would talk about that, that you have to go, you have to go out, you have to go meet people, you have to see what’s beyond, you know, here at home. It’s hard. Yes. Here is home. You know, you always have this at home, but yet, you need to improve yourself. You have to expand and challenge yourself.
[Music swells]
[00:14:39] Dr. Porter Swentzell: I’m Porter Swentzell. I’m from Santa Clara Pueblo.
(silence)
[00:14:45] Charlotte: There’s gotta be more than that. Go on.
(laughter)
[00:14:47] Porter Swentzell: Right now, I’m the executive director of Kha’p’o Community School, which is our tribally controlled school at Santa Clara Pueblo.
[00:14:54] Charlotte (VO): Dr. Porter Swentzell is a consultant on this project. Here’s some of his conversation with Michael Trujillo.
[00:14:59] Porter Swentzell: So do you think maybe, you know, this is one of the things, you know, when you’re looking through the archives, this part of the story is always missing, right?
Michael Trujillo: Yeah.
Porter Swentzell: Whether it was a lot more Felix Cohen’s idea, you know, to figure out how to get this going or, and how much your, your dad was, or mom even in terms of making this go forward, you know?
[00:15:18] Michael Trujillo: Well, yeah. You know, in that time, in the twenties and thirties, there was a lot of debate about: Who are the Indians? How do you handle American Indians in the United States? Are they foreigners living in a sovereign nation or do they have voting rights?
Also, at that time, were debates, with the National Congress of American Indians, which was a new organization. Should we get voting rights? Sovereignty? What happens to the land? What happens to the trust relationship, if there is a trust relationship?
All that was being discussed and was fomenting. And a number of individuals who had gone to World War II as American Indians and fought and then came back and had gone and had gotten education, also began to ask questions about: Who are they? Where are they? What’s the state doing? Why can’t we participate? Or how do we participate?
Arizona and New Mexico were one of the last two states that prohibited Native American Indians living in their state to vote.
There were several lawsuits against New Mexico State voting and those sort of fell through the cracks.
There was also a couple things that happened in Arizona, and at that time, I think the two Mojave individuals were part of a lawsuit under the auspices of the National Congress of American Indians, and they also sought the counsel of Felix Cohen. So Felix was helping them in regards to their lawsuit against the state regarding voting rights, and that was settled just before the New Mexico Miguel Trujillo, Gurule decision came out. And Felix came over and was very much interested.
Over here, there was an individual named [Curry?] and I think there was a lawyer, [Hansel?],who brought the suit along with Cohen. Earlier, Dad had gone to the university and was getting his bachelor’s. He met an individual in the anthropology department who was a graduate student who was doing a lot of research and other things on sovereignty, voting rights, et cetera.
He happened to know this lawyer [Hansel or Tansel?], here in Albuquerque, who was also, in that part, interested. And so when the Arizona thing came up, National Congress of American Indians came, NCAI came, that was right there. And it just so happens because Dad knew of this anthropology graduate student, this graduate student knew [Hansel?], the lawyer here in Albuquerque who was very interested in voting rights, in sovereignty, things meshed.
And Dad was the person who they picked because he was a Pueblo Indian, Native American. He was educated. He served in World War II honorably. He was a teacher. He had a degree, paid all kinds of other taxes except property taxes.
But when he went down to Las Lunas to the courthouse to register to vote, Mr. Gurule, who was the county clerk, said, “Miguel, we went to school together. You know, you can’t vote. I can’t, I have to uphold the law.”
That was an ideal time. And so about five days later, the suit was handed over to the New Mexico and a three judge District court hearing was scheduled and Dad was very interested in regards to he not wanting it for a specific tribe or individual, but rather it opened the door for Indians, in general, and tribes to vote not. To be assimilated into the dominant culture, but rather as a mechanism by which they could hold on to their sovereignty, their traditions, and other things by having a voting voice to say, these are the laws that we want and need to be respected, or the individuals who are going to protect this whole area of sovereignty, land, water, mineral, et cetera.
[00:19:52] Stephanie (VO): Simply put sovereignty as the authority to self-govern treaties, Supreme court cases, presidents and Congress have all affirmed the right of tribes to govern themselves.
[00:20:01] Charlotte (VO): We’ll be exploring this conversation more in episodes three and four of this season, so stay tuned.
[00:20:08] Porter Swentzell: One of the things that were coming up from the Pueblo governors at that time was different Pueblos opposed the idea entirely. You know, and I’m wondering if… what you know about that, those tensions?
[00:20:19] Michael Trujillo: There were a number of individuals and Pueblo leaders who were adamant against this primarily because if you got the voting right, what’s gonna happen next? Will that open the door for land to be taken away again? Would that be taking away the sovereignty, et cetera?
How do you trust a government that hasn’t done well in the past?
The U.S. government, the Mexican government, and the Spanish government – there’s a long history of that.
So who’s gonna hold onto those traditions?
If we are going to vote, are we gonna be voting away our lives and our, the future of our children?
That was the main question. In fact, the All Pueblo Indian Council did not support Dad in the voting rights program.
Later on, after it was passed, they supported the process because the whole discussion became this is a way by which we can retain our culture, retain our traditions, retain our land, et cetera.
And unfortunately then, not many Indians voted. And still don’t.
[00:21:33] Stephanie (VO): Just like everyone else in society, not all Native people share the same opinion. Some in Trujillo’s Pueblo didn’t support his efforts to get the right to vote. The reasons? Well, it’s complicated.
[00:21:45] Dr. Maurice Crandall: Hello, my name is Maurice Crandall and I am Yavapai-Apache from the Yavapai-Apache Nation of Camp Verde, Arizona. I’m an associate professor of history at Arizona State University and I’m a historian of, broadly speaking, the Indigenous peoples of what we would consider the U.S.-Mexico border region.
Indigenous people who live in other parts of what’s then the United States, and it’s expanding in the mid 19th century, they mainly live on Indigenous lands that are understood to be protected lands, reservations that can’t be bought or sold. But once you make that step to citizenship, you don’t have that same protected status and your land holdings aren’t viewed in the same way as reservation lands.
At least in that time, you couldn’t be both. There was no dual citizenship in those days. You couldn’t be a citizen of a tribal nation and a citizen of the United States. They formulated this idea that the way to keep that sort of land grab and the complete loss of Pueblo lands, which then would mean the loss of culture, the loss of community, ‘cause the land is everything.
And if you lose that land, what do you have?
But the way to prevent that from happening is to tell Pueblo people explicitly: don’t vote. Don’t vote. Because if you don’t vote, then you’re not a citizen. Your lands can be protected under federal law, which are a series of acts called the Non-Intercourse Acts. They’re closed to sale. You can’t buy or sell them. You can’t have squatters move onto those lands. A whole series of things that are protected against. But the idea is by not voting, you protect that sort of special status as Indigenous people.
[00:23:31] Karen Waconda: Well, my grandfather knew. You know, he didn’t go in naively and thinking, “Well, um, why are we not voting?” and not knowing what the courts would do?
He knew he was gonna lose, and he knew it was gonna be for a long battle.
I didn’t know the intensiveness of it. You know, you don’t get that as a child or even as a teenager. You test everybody on that, but, you know, my grandfather was already an adult. You know, he already had a family and I think the hardship that I remember that struck me the most was that some of the community members at Isleta or any Pueblo, you know, in my family weren’t supportive of it.
[00:24:27] John Waconda: That’s where I think people didn’t realize that voting gives us rights. But then people thought voting can take away our rights as well, too. And I think that he was maybe ostracized for maybe stepping up and being too outgoing in that arena. And I’m sure it – maybe that’s why it was kind of like low key.
[00:25:02] June Lorenzo: My name is June Lorenzo. I’m Laguna and Diné. I’m Tábąąhá on my mother’s side, the Water Edge People and I’m Little Turkey on my father’s side from Laguna. So I was born in Albuquerque, ‘cause there were no hospitals at Laguna, and raised at Laguna.
I’m a chief judge at Zia Pueblo. Because it’s a part-time position, I also still have a private practice in state and tribal courts. And then I also do a good amount of consulting and advocacy internationally on human rights issues for Indigenous peoples. One of my jobs, my former jobs, in Washington was working for the Select Committee in Indian Affairs.
And I remember very clearly when there was a congressperson or two who would not have won if it were not for the Native vote. They were very cognizant of the power of the Native vote, and I guess it’s just up to Native people to, you know, to show up because it makes a difference. It really does.
I would hope that people in New Mexico where we are here understand the power of the Native vote, but it really does make a difference when you know who’s gonna show up at the polls, when you know who’s gonna vote, it makes a big difference.
And then, of course, you have to make the representatives accountable. But conveying that connection is people have to see the connection between voting and making representatives accountable and seeing something. It can’t be just, oh, I’m gonna throw you some road funds and repair your road just so you get something.
I mean, it’s more about, well, are you gonna support sovereignty? Are you gonna vote these issues? Are you gonna support, you know, the bigger things?
[00:26:48] Karen Waconda: As far as Natives, you vote more than any other citizen. And so your voice is heard many times. It should be heard many times. So he wanted us to be prepared for when it came time for us to vote, and he went with me for my first voting.
He stayed there with me and I remember it so well and, you know, afterwards he hugged me and we had a special dinner and, and then we stayed up late to see the elections, who won. And you know, that was a routine. That was, that was typical.
[00:27:25] Stephanie: Why do you think that people don’t really know this story?
[00:27:28] Karen Waconda: I asked myself many times, I mean, why don’t people know about the history of his story?
One, it’s not taught in school. I didn’t learn it in school. It should have been. I mean, he gave a presentation to my class one year, you know, down at Los Lunas. But do many remember? No.
[00:27:47] John Waconda: I think that oftentimes there was a concern about him being too far out there, and then I think he also didn’t live on the reservation either.
I think he realized there might have been some disconnect that he wasn’t, you know, a tribal resident there that might have troubled him, but yet I think that’s why he came down so often to visit us is that we gave him that connection as well too. You know, he was around. You know, people saw him. You know, people got to visit with him there at our house and people would come to see him at our house because they knew he was there. Which was great because then I got to know those people and people became to know us and the family.
You know, I really think that today, even myself, might be considered an outsider, you know, going away to school, really not established in the community as as strong as other people, but yet, through him, there is that knowledge of, okay, they’re the Wacondas, you know. You know, Dr. Miguel, that’s his family.
I wish we would be able to go back to you know, the dances and ceremonies and things at Isleta because it’s been, you know, two or three years now. And, um, I really miss that because then I get to go back and see some of those people and. Some of ’em, a lot of ’em are gone that knew my grandpa. There’s very, very few people that know my grandpa in that regard.
[00:29:19] Karen Waconda: It was sad when he was first recognized and the newspaper came out when he was paralyzed and it was near towards the end of his life. And for him to be seen that way, it hurt me.
But I think that’s what we, as people, particularly Native, is that we don’t mark things. You know, there are many teachers and leaders in our community that may do small things or big things. Small things can lead to bigger things, or big things can lead to a smaller, really infinite thing.
I think through his struggles early on in life, by leaving home, both my grandmother and my grandfather, that was the time and era when they left. That was a time too, not to make things pronounced. I mean, can you imagine how disconnect – at an early age, you’re leaving home. You’re leaving your language and your culture. And so any big announcement, what are you tying that to and for what purpose?
I think the purpose of an announcement was needed. And how do you announce it? I mean, I don’t know how to explain it, but it’s a timing. Now, if it happened today, oh yeah, it would’ve been out in the news. No doubt about it.
[00:30:45] Charlotte (VO): Still, even outside of Miguel’s family and community, some tried to carry on his story. Here’s Gordon Bronitsky.
[00:30:51] Gordon Bronitsky: His story resonates with me ‘cause he was a fighter. And given my life and my work and who I am, I admire when somebody says, “This is wrong.” And instead of saying, you know, “I’m gonna, I’m gonna post this on Facebook and I’m gonna tell everybody it’s wrong and I’m gonna do a tweet that you wouldn’t believe!” which does nothing.
And like many fighters of many colors, genders, all that, he paid for it. He suffered for it, you know? And, um, I was just sufficiently taken by his courage and his persistence. This stubborn, stiff neck guy he was, evidently, that it just resonated with me and I’ve continued to talk. I mean, I’ve talked to high school students about this.
I’m talking here. I – you know – if there’s somebody else wants me to talk, just let me know. I will be there ‘cause it is that important that he fought. And he made something happen.
[00:31:52] Charlotte: Stephanie, throughout all of these interviews, I’ve really gotten the impression that if Miguel Trujillo were here today, he’d be less interested in personal recognition and more interested in the fact that he was able to help his community.
[00:32:04] Stephanie: I completely agree, Charlotte. It’s really hard to try and imagine what our ancestors would think of what we’re doing today, but Miguel seemed like a very humble man.
[00:32:14] Karen Waconda: I know my grandpa would want it to be known for the sake for Indian people to get out and vote. I know he would be deeply honored. I know my grandma would be honored. I know my mom would be honored to have him recognized.
But for him, I think it’s more so for the sake of getting the voice out, for people to vote for our Native people, to create action that you do have a voice. You do have a right as any other. And don’t wait. You know, what is gonna hinder you? Well, there are ways. You know, either use your education or, you know, communicate with somebody else, or build relations, but there are ways to create action. So I think he would be honored, yes, more so my mother and grandmother. I think it’s for him for awareness.
[00:33:07] Michael Trujillo: Yeah. I think both of ’em would sort of say, well, taking advantage of that. I think they would remain at home and, in the evenings, they always like to get the Indian melons, the nice sweet melons, and have that in the evening over the dessert with Indian bread.
[Music swells]
[00:33:36] Stephanie (VO): Next time on Encounter culture…
[00:33:38] Karen Waconda: That’s why my grandfather always said, “Karen, if you’re gonna get a degree, get two degrees.”
So my first degree is nutrition dietetics, and my second is in community health. But on top of that, I have a massage license.
He said, “Always get a skill that nobody can take away from you. You know, have a skill that you really put a lot of passion to, and that will thrive you beyond because when you have a skill with that passion, it’s gonna make you move.”
[Season Outro. Theme music fades in.]
Charlotte (VO): Encounter Culture is a production of the New Mexico Department of Cultural Affairs. This season was produced in collaboration with the New Mexico History Museum with a grant from the National Endowment for the Humanities.
Stephanie (VO): We are especially grateful to the family of Miguel and Ruchanda Trujillo, and to the Indian Pueblo Cultural Center.
Charlotte (VO): Our show’s producer is Andrea Klunder at The Creative Impostor Studios.
Stephanie (VO): Season 4 is produced and edited by Alex Riegler, Monica Braine, and Andrea Klunder.
Charlotte (VO): Our recording engineer is Kabby at Kabby Sound Studios in Santa Fe.
Stephanie (VO): Post-production audio by Edwin R. Ruiz.
Charlotte (VO): Show notes by Lisa Widder and social media design by Caitlin Sunderland.
Stephanie (VO): Our executive producer is Daniel Zillmann.
Charlotte (VO): Thank you to New Mexico artist, El Brujo, D’Santi Nava for our theme music. And to Clark Tenakhongva, Gary Stroutsos, and Matthew Nelson for the incredible Hopi music featured throughout all six episodes of this season. Their new album is set to release in August 2023, and will be available for purchase on Bandcamp and at ongtupqa.com. We’ve included the links for you in the show notes.
Stephanie (VO): For a full transcript and show notes, visit podcast.nmculture.org or click the link in the episode description in your listening app.
Charlotte (VO): I’m your host, Charlotte Jusinski.
Stephanie (VO): And I’m your co-host, Stephanie Padilla.
Charlotte (VO): The Mexico Department of Cultural Affairs is your hub for the state’s exceptional museums, historic sites, and cultural institutions.
Stephanie (VO): From Native treasures to space exploration, world class folk art to awesome dinosaurs, we celebrate the essence of New Mexico every day.
Charlotte (VO): Remember to head to podcast.nmculture.org/giveaway to enter to win four culture passes and a subscription to El Palacio. Enter before August 31st, 2023. Thanks for listening.
[Theme music fades out.]